19 June 2013

HK P30/P30L short travel LEM (CDA) trigger V4.1 aka V4 CH

For last month or so I'm testing reduced travel LEM (called CDA in Europe, for Combat Defense Action) trigger, that I call V4.1 (internal HK designation V4 CH). What this trigger group does is reducing pre-travel  on P30 LEM trigger by roughly 1/3, from 15mm (0.590")  to 10mm (0.393") measured in middle of trigger height. After initial pre-travel there is 1.5mm (0.059") of sear engagement travel (think of it as second stage in 2-stage trigger) and 1mm (0.039") of over-travel. Sear travel and over-travel are same for all variants (V4.1 does not change that) except for V6, that is "real" DAO trigger. Reset is same as standard LEM trigger at 7.5mm (0.295"). 5mm (0.196") of reduction may not sound a lot, but in real life it make big difference. It no longer feels like eternity to take up LEM trigger, so there is less tendency for trigger jerking during fast shooting. Overall feel is very good.

For those wondering how to get this trigger, nice guys from HK sent me conversion chart for every P30/P30L trigger variant and give green light to share it.



Below are HK part numbers for parts needed to do conversion from old trigger variants to V4.1 (or V4 CH) trigger. Upgrade should be done by HK armorer, but it is not that hard to figure it out for people who have some experience with HK USP and P series triggers. Parts can be ordered via local HK distributor, most of them are not yet aware of this trigger group, so providing them with part numbers should make things easier. So here go parts list (sorry for very rough translation from German into English):

V0 -> V4.1: HAMMER 207934, CATCH LATCH 207933, COMPRESSION SPRING 207932, LATCH, cpl. 209320, LEG SPRING 234773, CONTROL LATCH 209274

V1 and V2 -> V4.1: HAMMER 207934, CATCH LATCH 207933, COMPRESSION SPRING 207932, LEG SPRING 234773

V3 -> V4.1: HAMMER 207934, CATCH LATCH 207933, COMPRESSION SPRING 207932, LATCH, cpl. 209320, CLAMPING PIECE 209265, LEG SPRING 234773, CONTROL LATCH 209274, LEG SPRING 209275, COMPRESSION SPRING 214695

V4 -> V4.1: HAMMER 207934, CATCH LATCH 207933, COMPRESSION SPRING 207932

V6 -> V4.1: HAMMER 207934, CATCH LATCH 207933, COMPRESSION SPRING 207932, LATCH, cpl. 209320, CLAMPING PIECE 209265, LEG SPRING 234773, LEG SPRING 209275, COMPRESSION SPRING 214695, TRIGGER ROD 207331, LEAF SPRING 214167  

BTW My pointless P30 endurance test continues. Last session added shooting 138 trouble free 124gr FMJ Geco rounds. This means 829 rounds since last time cleaned and lubed.

25 comments:

  1. hey, where did you get the parts you needed for this?

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    1. I got parts from HK via one of local HK distributors, who processed order. Part numbers in post are provided (with blessing from HK) to allow ordering right kit via HK distributor or dealer.

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    2. can you share a website? or email address for them?

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    3. I ordered my set during my visit in Oberndorf last year. So I do not have website or e-mail address to point you to. My local HK distributors (Cenrex and Kaliber companies) can not sell outside Poland. You need to find one in your country.

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  2. Anonymous15/7/13 23:12

    Does this convert a V3 DA/SA to a LEM? Or just shorten the reset on the SA? Very interested.

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    1. Parts kit converts V3 DA/SA to V4.1 LEM. It does not shorten reset, only total trigger travel for LEM.

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  3. Anonymous15/8/13 17:31

    Do you know if this is compatible for the P2000 series?

    JC

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  4. Anonymous11/5/14 10:36

    LEM was original made for P2000 and means semiDAO with DA: after first shot in SDAO if primer falls give a second shot in DA. CDA was called first time mechanism of P30, in my opinion aldow it was kind of marceting, it also means ONLY semiDAO. When you watch their page when trigger wroks like in my describe of LEM it's walways describe as "CDA/DA". My opinion is, that semiDAO is the best trigger work for combat handgun, it has different names in many guns: QA in P99, CDA in P30 V2, V4, LDA in Para-Ordnance, Safe Action in Glock.

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    1. LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) trigger group was originally designed to FBI requirements for HK USP and USP Compact. P2000 (later designated P2000 V0) was first HK pistol offered from factory with LEM trigger in Europe (I had one of very early P2000 V0). From the beginning LEM trigger for markets other than USA is called CDA (Combat Defensive Action). V0 trigger in P2000 (and P30/L/S) is little special and is designated as CDA/DA. It is designed for safe "de-cocking" hammer spring for first shot in DA mode and follow up shots in CDA mode. Other variants operate in CDA (LEM) mode for every shot - while still have second strike capability (unlike Glock SA or P99QA).

      My post deals with special version on LEM/CDA V4 designed to meet requirements of Swiss Police, regarding length of trigger travel.

      There is currently no direct equivalent to LEM/CDA trigger from other manufacturers. From those you mentioned LDA is close, but it does not have shorter reset on follow up shots. Only trigger that can be similar in function is Walther P99AS (Anti Stress) trigger, with longer fist shot pull and shorter follow up pulls. But it is very distant similarity, plus Walther trigger require de-cocking for pistol to be safe after last shot, while in LEM/CDA you just take finger out if trigger and pistol is safe.

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    2. Anonymous6/7/16 20:29

      P99AS is similar if you mean first shot is with longer trigger travel, but as you said CDA is better because it's safe just in the moment finger is took of the trigger:
      and that I presume the semiDAO's and their clones are good solution for combat handgun: medium travel of the trigger, pull like in SA, better control of jerking :)
      Trigger mechanism was one of the advantages Glock pistols, which made them as popular i service use.
      Other manufacturers had to offer similar constructions like SIG's double action Kellerman (DAK) the most similar to H&K's LEM / CDA. First of all Knowing a P2000 I fought, that CDA means semiDAO like Glock or P99QA: when I saw video when someone shoots by P30 CDA with shorter hammer I recognise it's the same as P2000 LEM.

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  5. Anonymous11/5/14 10:43

    http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/military/products/pistols/p30/p30p30s/overview.html -
    this is link for page to check

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    Replies
    1. I know that. My post was not meant to describe or present LEM/CDA trigger. It is info on properties of special variant of this trigger, not mentioned in on HK webpage.

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  6. Anonymous15/5/14 20:32

    Just called HK-USA and the part numbers 207934, 207933, 207932 are for a UMP machine gun. Is that right?

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    1. What parts would that be then? Because HK UMP parts diagram does not show those parts numbers (I do not know of single UMP part that starts with "207").

      Part numbers matrix was received straight from HK Gmbh @ Oberndorf and are consistent with part numbers printed on parts labels.

      I think somebody might made a mistake in HK USA, or you got them wrong. I suggest you contact G&R Tactical - they had some V4.1 kits on order from HK USA, if I remember correctly.

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  7. HKPARTS.NET has the P30 CDA 4.1 parts (individually) on order and some of the items are in stock now and available just type in the part numbers and they will pull up in the system. More to come as they are available here in the U.S.

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    1. This is great news for all US owners. I love my P30 with 4.1 - best version of LEM around.

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  8. Is this trigger available for the HK 45 and 45c?

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  9. We now have them in stock and ready to ship same day:
    http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=17647&adminPreview=1

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  10. I have a factory P30L LEM V1 Light and bought the 4.1 CDA parts. I have installed the hammer and catch but was thinking the spring might make the trigger pull heavier than my V1 Light spring. Is this correct? Could I run my stock compression spring and use the 4.1 CDA catch and hammer and have the shorter trigger travel and a light pull in this configuration?

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    1. You can keep existing springs (I reccomend to change trigger bar plunger spring) and you will have lighter trigger pull.

      However for dynamic shooting I prefer full 4.1 conversion, as heavier trigger return spring will "smooth out" trigger pull and give more positive reset. In my P30L full V4.1 kit gave trigger pull weight around 2.4-2.5kg.

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  11. Hi Montrala,

    I just did the conversion for my HK P30 V1 Light LEM and noticed that the plunger/compression spring under the trigger bar (207932) is not as smooth as the one I had before. Very gritty and feels like it takes more force to get it going as if the part of the plunger that is wider protruding into the area under the rear grip panel was slightly in the frame. I also noticed that when I dry fire and not rack the slide, slowly letting go the trigger, sometimes it would not reset but the trigger gets stuck. I have the lightest springs for the TRS and FPSB with stock 12? lb hammer spring.

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  12. I had the same issue as Huang above and switched back to the original trigger bar spring; problem solved.
    This was a real pain in the ass as I could not see why that spring was causing the problems that it was.

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  13. I converted my p2000sk V3 to 4.1LEM - the parts recommended in this post yield a very good trigger. I found one more part at HKPARTS that sweetens up the trigger even more: SKU: HKP-18110
    Brand: Lazy Wolf Guns. This match grade FPBS provides a definite improvement!!

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